Forum

Login        Register

It is currently 21:45 on Thursday 18 September 2014



Board Index » Barmy Army » General Cricket Chat


Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [ 7 posts ]
Author Message
addtamx
Post subject: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 03:03 on 22nd Aug 2012

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 953
Location: Australia
So having just lost our No1 test ranking I'm interested in hearing opinions on where we all think England stand in the test arena and where we are headed. It was a proud 12 months being considered the best test side in the world but it was always a very tenuous hold on the spot.

I think there are enough KP threads floating around that his name doesn't need to come into the discussion, for the purpose of this thread lets assume (as looks likely) he is finished as an England cricketer. Time for us to move on without him......

So that leaves us 2 contentious batting spots to nut out as well as (sadly) Andrew Strauss's future and also Ian Bells. Bowling, more complex I'd think......personally I'm still in favour of 5 bowlers, using Bressy as an allrounder, but Broad's form is of concern as well. At least in this regard we've got proven bench strength.

I'm not sure at all how we'll pull off a positive result in India and I think at this stage I'd be happy with just limited damage, a draw or narrow loss would look good for us right now. If we don't get a result in India then we'll have a bigger gap to bridge as Aus play South Africa at the same time and one of them will widen the gap (horrific to think the convicts could be back on top after that series!!)

So what do you guy's think?? Time for significant changes?? Has the last 12 months just been an unfortunate loss of form and do we have the goods to get back up there again??
Top
Reply with quote
lanesra
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 04:08 on 22nd Aug 2012

Joined: 13:50 on 5th Jul 2012
Posts: 27
Like you I live in Australia, and the mere thought of them returning to the sumit is enough to bring me out in a cold sweat (Yes I have lived it up for the past couple of years). But then I think to myself, No!! Do they have an attack that would have Amla and co sleeping uneasily??. No I am afraid that I think that the Saffers will take some shifting from thier perch, they would seem to me to have it all, and we should try and take a leaf out of thier book if possible.
As for our immediate future I think that it now a confidence thing, at no time (imo) did we get enough pressure with three bowlers grafting at the same time to worry SA, also when the opening batsmen lacking in confidence like ours are at the moment do not fire that goes through the rest of the order (Jonny B excluded in the last test).
But take heart because I refuse to believe that we have become a bad side overnight, and it is now up to Gooch/Flower to get in to the heads of the players to bring us back.
Still off to NZ next year, and am not going to bother buying day five tickets (yes I am always the optomist)..........
Top
Reply with quote
samcrewe
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 09:09 on 22nd Aug 2012

Joined: 20:35 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 657
We need to put something into perspective when it comes to the Saffas. For some very unknown reason, they seem to perform at their very best when they are abroad. When it comes to playing at home, their record over the last 5 years is pretty dire. I expect (and hope) them to completely tear the Aussies a new one, seeing as the last one that was torn we well and truly ruined for anyone else

I think you are right, a lot of this is a confidence thing. The preparation didn't seem to be anywhere near as meticulous as previous seasons. This seemed to perfectly shown in our poor performance in the field. In the Ashes we didn't seem to drop a single chance. In this series when the going got tough we dropped catches and made the already difficult task that much more impossible. This has to be addressed as a matter of priority.

I doubt many people will have this same opinion, but I actually thought our bowlers bowled without much luck. When they got it wrong, it was generally due to poor tactics, ie: there was clearly a very wrong team bowling tactic chosen for the Oval, which in many ways is a coaching fault as much as it is a bowling unit fault. I actually don't agree re: Broad. I thought he bowled pretty well. Bresnan on the otherhand, I cannot recall him bowling many good deliveries.

The difference for me, in this series was the pure determination of the batting line-ups. The SA batting line-up respected certain situations and dug in when they needed to (think back to Swann's battle with Smith at the Oval). They saw out the tough times and capitalised when the pitch/ball was no longer offering anything. Whereas our batsmen threw their wickets away too many times. I don't think our guys respected the conditions or the opposition bowlers enough. What I think I have finally come to the conclusion of, is that Bell is not a top 4 order batsmen. He is great at 5 or 6, but struggles against new ball movement and at the moment, with Strauss rarely seeing out the first 15 overs he is going to be exposed to the new ball far more regularly than he should.

I haven't seen enough of Taylor to suggest he warrants a spot in the top 4 or 5. Bairstow is perfect for that 6th spot, anything higher and I think we are gambling.

As for the Strauss dilemma. Well, for me his strengths lie in his man management. I think most will agree that his tactical play leaves a lot to be desired. His batting since taking on the captaincy has been pretty crap really. So taking into consideration the above, I would vote to have him retire and take a coaching role along with Flower, where his man-management skills can still be taken advantage of. But who takes his place as the opener? You could argue that Trott has practically been doing this anyway for most of Strauss' term as captain, so this could be an option, but then who would take the number three spot if that happened?

For me all of the questions are around batting and fielding, not bowling
Top
Reply with quote
addtamx
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 07:43 on 24th Aug 2012

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 953
Location: Australia
Been thinking about the Strauss situation, and I don't think now is the right time for him to move on.

He took over a team in disarray and turned it into a strong, gelled unit. I'm not suggesting we are in as poor a shape as we were back in early '09, but there are going to be some team scars after this KP fiasco (I know I said we shouldn't mention him!!) Who better to lead a new team forward and create the right culture amongst the group??

When the time comes I'd rather Cook inherit a team on the rise and not one on the slide.

Lets just pray Straussie can find some runs so the pressure on his place in the team isn't under constant scrutiny.
Top
Reply with quote
addtamx
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 08:15 on 29th Aug 2012

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 953
Location: Australia
End of the road for Strauss??

www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/cu ... 79864.html

Hope not :(
Top
Reply with quote
Stu07
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 18:08 on 29th Aug 2012

Joined: 17:30 on 29th Aug 2012
Posts: 10
The Strauss questions has been aswered he's retired. I think he's been a great leader for us and i've enjoyed watching a glittering career.

I do agree with SamCrewe, the bowling was good for the most part. But batting collapses in the winter seem to have dug deeper that I think we all thought. I certainly think Strauss never got past it.

Watching the Englandlions has really given me hope there are some great signs, Bairstow, Root and Taylor would have been better coming into the side one by one and not all that same time. I think the management like the look of Root, I would go for Hales myself.

Moving forward - as much as it saddened me, in a way it might be a good thing. We're lacking a real gritty player in that middle order which we haven't had since Colly retired. Trott may be better dropping down to 5 but i certainly see why he comes in at 3, because his grittyness is needed if we lose early wickets. I've thought for some time we need an allrounder. I'd like to see Woakes given a chance, with Finn, Broad, Anderson and Swann making up the main attack. Woakes could give you 10 overs of tight line and length and he's scored big runs this year down the order - granted international is a big step up. But India I feel we may need that. A seamer may be dropped for a second spinner, so an allrounder I feel is needed.

I do feel the fielding and batting needs to be addressed. Trott going up to open in India will probably happen because of the experience factor. I know we're not suppose to say it but I think KP will come back in - my team for first India test:-

Cook
Trott
KP
Bell
Bairstow
Prior
Woakes
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Panesar

My opinion is that we will retain the ashes next summer, it will be tough for us to win down under and to beat India. Andrew Strauss - been a massive pleasure but like Nass, Vaughan and Freddie before him one man doesn't make a team and we will move on.
Top
Reply with quote
samcrewe
Post subject: Re: So where are we at now??
PostPosted: 06:47 on 30th Aug 2012

Joined: 20:35 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 657
Stu07 Wrote:
Cook
Trott
KP
Bell
Bairstow
Prior
Woakes
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Panesar

For India, I think you are about on the money there. Although if we are aiming at having an allrounder spot I would probably go for Bres, even though he was completely ineffective with both bat and ball for most of the summer. I do agree with you about getting the Colly style player. When he was on song, our lineup was so balanced. You almost had grit mixed with agression throughout our batting lineup.

In more seam friendly conditions though, I would replace Monty with Finn then probably look to replace Woakes with Morgan. With Prior moving down a spot. With Morgan you are also bolstering your fielding squad, which has been pretty crap recently.
Top
Reply with quote
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [ 7 posts ]