Forum

Login        Register

It is currently 9:04 on Friday 24 October 2014



Board Index » Barmy Army » General Cricket Chat


Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next
Author Message
Jonny Trabant
Post subject: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 09:08 on 27th Dec 2012

Joined: 08:20 on 27th Dec 2012
Posts: 17
Was going to post this as a reply to Harvey's 20/20 Big Bash post, but as always I've wandered off so I've decided to start a new thread.

First time poster but very long time watcher.

A very touchy subject especially for our Harvey, who we all know isn't let's say too fond of 20/20 in general and ridicules It at every opportunity.

Watching some of the games on Sky is painful at times, especially the amount of empty seats. But what's the alternative? Australia simply hasn't got the suitable small stadia. The attendances are interesting with the highest crowd being the Melbourne derby a few years ago, 50,000 or so. Compare it with our 20/20 and it's still massively higher. Very few if any get the 'sold out signs' in the uk and I doubt an inter city 20/20 would fair any better.

I get my full membership from my County minus their 20/20 season ticket, this year I did buy it as it fitted in with my work commitments and I enjoyed it for what it was. A bit of fun, a few beers, no great commitment from my self so what's the harm in that?

Let's face it, as a format it's here for the foreseeable future. Test cricket is hanging by a thread, bar England. The attendance at the Melbourne Boxing day test was 67,000 first day and 37,000 second that's impressive but I fear more people going out of tradition rather than being cricketing traditionalists.

County cricket is already dead in the water with only the ECB propping it up and without their contribution would fade away certainly in its present form. I thought that the ECB survey was excellent and I am glad they are keeping with the two tier CC system, also reverting back to the 50 over one day format was a good move.

Day night test cricket is inevertable in my opinion, whether it works is another debate. I would personally like to see CC games start at 1pm and have the final session in the evening it's certainly possible here in the UK.

That's enough thoughts for a first timer
Top
Reply with quote
blueandy1mac
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 15:04 on 27th Dec 2012

Joined: 12:30 on 14th Jul 2008
Posts: 2151
Location: Preston UK
Hmmm
Articulate.
Reasoned.
Balanced.
Thought provoking.
Non threatening.
Minor pop at Harvey, but other than that !

Won't be around here long.

;)
Top
Reply with quote
Jonny Trabant
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 21:32 on 28th Dec 2012

Joined: 08:20 on 27th Dec 2012
Posts: 17
blueandy1mac Wrote:

Won't be around here long.

;)



Much like Man City I presume
Top
Reply with quote
peado
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 22:12 on 28th Dec 2012

Joined: 09:29 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 815
blueandy1mac Wrote:
Hmmm
Won't be around here long.
;)

I think somebody once said that about the IPL. Can't remember who it was !!
Top
Reply with quote
Big Harvey
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 00:39 on 29th Dec 2012

Joined: 09:14 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 2365
Jonny Trabant Wrote:
Was going to post this as a reply to Harvey's 20/20 Big Bash post, but as always I've wandered off so I've decided to start a new thread.

First time poster but very long time watcher.

A very touchy subject especially for our Harvey, who we all know isn't let's say too fond of 20/20 in general and ridicules It at every opportunity.

Watching some of the games on Sky is painful at times, especially the amount of empty seats. But what's the alternative? Australia simply hasn't got the suitable small stadia. The attendances are interesting with the highest crowd being the Melbourne derby a few years ago, 50,000 or so. Compare it with our 20/20 and it's still massively higher. Very few if any get the 'sold out signs' in the uk and I doubt an inter city 20/20 would fair any better.

I get my full membership from my County minus their 20/20 season ticket, this year I did buy it as it fitted in with my work commitments and I enjoyed it for what it was. A bit of fun, a few beers, no great commitment from my self so what's the harm in that?

Let's face it, as a format it's here for the foreseeable future. Test cricket is hanging by a thread, bar England. The attendance at the Melbourne Boxing day test was 67,000 first day and 37,000 second that's impressive but I fear more people going out of tradition rather than being cricketing traditionalists.

County cricket is already dead in the water with only the ECB propping it up and without their contribution would fade away certainly in its present form. I thought that the ECB survey was excellent and I am glad they are keeping with the two tier CC system, also reverting back to the 50 over one day format was a good move.

Day night test cricket is inevertable in my opinion, whether it works is another debate. I would personally like to see CC games start at 1pm and have the final session in the evening it's certainly possible here in the UK.

That's enough thoughts for a first timer


Welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure what you think is "a very touchy subject" for me. :?

In fact I wouldn't disagree with most of your post, except I think you're a bit more pessimistic than I am about the future of both Test cricket (at least in the bigger nations) and county cricket.

Now that the ECB seems to have finally realised that Giles Clarke's army of big spending, T20-loving, replica kit buying consumers has not materialised on anything like the scale they thought it would, they have finally realised that they are going to have to listen to us cricket fans after all. They now know what we think and seem to have been prepared to act upon it. From 2014 onwards, no longer will first class cricket be marginalised to the fringes of summer. Meanwhile I think that the spread-out format of the T20 competition will lead to improved attendances, and be a nice little earner for the counties, which is what it should have stuck to being all along. I still think they've got the format of the one day competition wrong, but maybe that'll change at a later date.

Re. late starts for CC games, yes I think it would be worth experimenting with during the lighter months (June and July), but not for the whole season. Personally I prefer it as it is, because I travel a long distance to get to home games, but nothing wrong with trying it out to see whether there's an untapped vein of support out there.

I think we're too disparaging in this country about our domestic cricket set-up. It's undoubtedly pretty good at producing quality players at the moment, and the ECB is getting good value for its handouts. The two division County Championship produces some tough, competitive cricket, and cracking entertainment. With Australia busily trashing its own once fantastic domestic system, I'm pressed to think of a country with a better one than ours. South Africa maybe, but that's about it.

Re. what's the alternative to the Big Bash League? Well, before the BBL, Cricket Australia had the most successful domestic T20 competition outside India, the KFC Big Bash. It was based on the state sides and was less pretentious and less hyped. What's more, it actually made money instead of losing it! It produced the record attendance for a domestic T20 match in Australia - 43,125 for the 2010 clash between the Victorian Bushrangers and the Tasmanian Tigers at the MCG.

Now that they're stuck with the franchise system of the BBL though, it may be difficult for them to get out of it even if they want to.
Top
Reply with quote
Jonny Trabant
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 09:11 on 29th Dec 2012

Joined: 08:20 on 27th Dec 2012
Posts: 17
I wasn't criticising you in any way Harvey. You've always posted with thought and a good deal of reason, I just thought 20/20 really annoyed you in how I read your posts.

Never mind.

I agree with you and will go one step further in that we have the best and strongest domestic Championship in world cricket now, mind you it's took a decade or so to get there. Being the strongest league has also lured the likes of Trott and KP and others to our shores in the hope of greater things which undeniably they have and our national team is stronger for it, but at a cost I believe. Unlike most of my County teams supporters I understand the CC is there totally for the benefit of the national team and I fully understand why players have to be called away, play for Lions (which incidentally I think has been a marvellous success) unlike some of my fellow supporters. But ultimately I would like to see an England team with English and Welsh born players. How strong would SA be if they had JT and KP in their team? Would they even get in their team? But again that's another debate.

Like you've said Harvey the ECB must listen and more importantly build on what we the fans say, I would say that most of the people who completed the ECB survey were 'traditionalists' rather than the all too familiar 'fancy dress student types' who we see at county 20/20. The ECB have took the first steps in staging the 4 day game in a more reasonable time frame. And reverting to 50 over OD's

As for your last point about the BBL, well that's their problem. They've made their bed.......

One final point. Watching the BBL. I've only ever seen Luke Wright and Lumby playing are there any more English there? And what was the ECB's stance on performing there?
Top
Reply with quote
Richard
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 19:58 on 30th Dec 2012

Joined: 22:35 on 18th Nov 2008
Posts: 106
Jonny Trabant Wrote:
But ultimately I would like to see an England team with English and Welsh born players.


This is a rather thorny subject, but I'm happy for anyone who is qualified to play for England to do so, and will give them my full support. As I see it there are four different categories:

1. There is a long history of England players who weren't born in this country, including legendary players like Douglas Jardine, Colin Cowdrey and Ted Dexter, but moved back with their families when kids. I can't see many people objecting to this.

2. There have also been many players who weren't able to play test cricket for their home country for reasons beyond their control, starting with Ranjitsinjhi and Duleepsinjhi, moving through southern Africans like Tony Greig, Phil Edmonds, the Smith brothers and Graeme Hick, and finishing with Amjad Khan and Eoin Morgan. I fully understand why the latter two would happily throw in their lot with England, given that they'd been employed as professional cricketers in England and would naturally want to pursue their profession to the highest level. As test status is looking very much like a closed shop we will see more of these players in the England team.

3. There was a grim stage in the nineties where we picked people like Martin McCague and the Hollioake brothers; players who would probably have chosen to play for Australia if they were good enough. Fortunately the time where Sheffield Shield cricketers were a better option than county cricketers is long past.

4. The most dubious category is the 'economic migrant' category - people like Pietersen and Trott who came to play county cricket for extra cash (and to be fair, to improve their games too) who you mentioned in your post. My personal rationale is that my parents were both economic immigrants to England, so I can't object to other people who come to our country hoping to improve their lives.

I'd be interested to read other views on this.
Top
Reply with quote
addtamx
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 23:04 on 30th Dec 2012

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 955
Location: Australia
Richard Wrote:
Jonny Trabant Wrote:
But ultimately I would like to see an England team with English and Welsh born players.


This is a rather thorny subject, but I'm happy for anyone who is qualified to play for England to do so, and will give them my full support.


This. 100% agree with you Richard and your very well put categorisations.

As far as I'm concerned the ECB is an employer and if these players are qualified and have gone through whatever immigration process any other migrant in the UK has to go through, then pick em and we the fans should (and for the most part do) support them.

As an expat living in Oz I'd love to see any potential employer here try and not give me a job based on my nationality!! Surely that sort of thinking is a thing of the past??

It is not like the ECB is sending teams of scouts off around the world looking for talent to bring home.......these players are coming to England to play cricket. Our selectors job is to put the best 11 players they have at their disposal on the park.......I don't care 1 iota if some of those players happen to have been born overseas.
Top
Reply with quote
blueandy1mac
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 07:27 on 31st Dec 2012

Joined: 12:30 on 14th Jul 2008
Posts: 2151
Location: Preston UK
Jonny Trabant Wrote:
blueandy1mac Wrote:

Won't be around here long.

;)



Much like Man City I presume

YAAAAAWN.

Rag
Top
Reply with quote
blueandy1mac
Post subject: Re: Thoughts from a first time poster
PostPosted: 07:47 on 31st Dec 2012

Joined: 12:30 on 14th Jul 2008
Posts: 2151
Location: Preston UK
On a more serious note, how good to have a thread with serious debate. we don't do enough of this and I suppose I'm guiltier than most.
I think the issue of selection of 'non' nationals has now been addressed and the solution is acceptable to most. Its strange though how we see things and sometimes contort them to suit ourselves. Morgan for example. Richard, in an otherwise excellently reasoned post places him in a category which I believe to be completely incorrect. He is as much a financial mercenary as KP et al and plays for England despite the real progress the Irish national side has made. Many see him as 'different' to the Saffers and Aussies who have played for us but I fail to see the difference.
However, I totally agree with the sentinments of the rest of you that once he met the criteria for selection he is 'English' and warrants our unambivalent support. We have a long history of allowing opening our doors as a nation, long shall it be thus, with correct supervision.
Top
Reply with quote
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next