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Cuthbert Rizla
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 20:12 on 26th Jun 2014

Joined: 20:14 on 21st Mar 2012
Posts: 238
blueandy1mac Wrote:
Some well reasoned points all round and I tend to agree with virtually everybody to some extent :roll:
I think you can't 'make' a captain and its fairly obvious that Cooky isn't a natural. He has the look and demeanour of the proverbial 'dead man walking' and I believe will be relieved when the captaincy is taken from him, he just doesn't realise it yet.
I firmly believe he would benefit from a spell in CC, but not as preiously correctly stated in the 2nd Div where he can simply milk runs. Should test batsmen (captains) be playing 2nd Div cricket ? thats another matter, but we need to find him a way back to form and I don't think the way to do that is against test attacks who all know exactly where to get to you at present.
Realise I probably haven't moved the discussion on that much but I really don't know where we go at the mo': My choice would be Prior and lend Cooky to Lancs for a couple of weeks but I know some would say I'm biased. ;)



It's a times like this you need to cut through the bullshit spun by the ECB and spoon-fed to their lapdogs in the media.
The image they portray of the blue-blooded England captain destined for glory from an early age after processing majestically through the public school system into international stardom who retreats to his farm to re-charge his batteries between Tests while attempting to rectify a temporary blip in form.
It's bollocks. He went to a minor public school, his missus is a farmer's daughter and the nearest he comes to owning a farm is helping his father-in-law muck out cows.
He had one excellent Ashes series down under despite frequent questions being raised prior to this about his form,temperament and technique;captained an English team who won an historic victory in India against a piss-poor team coming to the end of an era and scraped a home Ashes win against another team in transition.
And has done bugger-all ever since.
I like Cooky. Great man and occasionally a great batsman.
But as captain and opening batsman of this England team he fails at both - under his leadership and presence at the top of the order against Indian this summer I fear utter ignominy.
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addtamx
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 23:50 on 26th Jun 2014

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 961
Location: Australia
Cuthbert Rizla Wrote:
It's a times like this you need to cut through the bullshit spun by the ECB and spoon-fed to their lapdogs in the media.
The image they portray of the blue-blooded England captain destined for glory from an early age after processing majestically through the public school system into international stardom who retreats to his farm to re-charge his batteries between Tests while attempting to rectify a temporary blip in form.
It's bollocks. He went to a minor public school, his missus is a farmer's daughter and the nearest he comes to owning a farm is helping his father-in-law muck out cows.
He had one excellent Ashes series down under despite frequent questions being raised prior to this about his form,temperament and technique;captained an English team who won an historic victory in India against a piss-poor team coming to the end of an era and scraped a home Ashes win against another team in transition.
And has done bugger-all ever since.
I like Cooky. Great man and occasionally a great batsman.
But as captain and opening batsman of this England team he fails at both - under his leadership and presence at the top of the order against Indian this summer I fear utter ignominy.


Jesus Rizla you really are an odd ball mate. Sometimes you make some really insightful posts.......and then you come up with an insane rant like this!!!

No offense mate but the first paragraph there just smacks of a massive chip you're carrying as apposed to any factual assessment of whats going on. FMD, "blue-blooded England captain.......destined for glory.....processing majestically through the public school system into international stardom" These are your own perceptions rather than anything the ECB media hub is promoting.

I don't care what Cook speaks like, what school he went to, what he does on weekends or even if he rocks up to games riding a horse carrying a lance. All I care about is how he performs as captain and batsman for England.

And for the record, Cook has undoubtedly failed as an England captain.....you've got no argument from me there. But failed as an opening batsmen???? Too many bongs when you posted that matey. 8000 test runs, 25 tons and an ave of 47 stands up against the very best.

The one and only thing we need to concern ourselves with is getting him back scoring runs, I'm with the majority that the best way to achieve that is take the captaincy away from him (although I've got nfi who to give it to) Sending him back to County Cricket is a waste of time and will achieve nothing.
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Cuthbert Rizla
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 07:47 on 27th Jun 2014

Joined: 20:14 on 21st Mar 2012
Posts: 238
addtamx Wrote:
Cuthbert Rizla Wrote:
It's a times like this you need to cut through the bullshit spun by the ECB and spoon-fed to their lapdogs in the media.
The image they portray of the blue-blooded England captain destined for glory from an early age after processing majestically through the public school system into international stardom who retreats to his farm to re-charge his batteries between Tests while attempting to rectify a temporary blip in form.
It's bollocks. He went to a minor public school, his missus is a farmer's daughter and the nearest he comes to owning a farm is helping his father-in-law muck out cows.
He had one excellent Ashes series down under despite frequent questions being raised prior to this about his form,temperament and technique;captained an English team who won an historic victory in India against a piss-poor team coming to the end of an era and scraped a home Ashes win against another team in transition.
And has done bugger-all ever since.
I like Cooky. Great man and occasionally a great batsman.
But as captain and opening batsman of this England team he fails at both - under his leadership and presence at the top of the order against Indian this summer I fear utter ignominy.


Jesus Rizla you really are an odd ball mate. Sometimes you make some really insightful posts.......and then you come up with an insane rant like this!!!

No offense mate but the first paragraph there just smacks of a massive chip you're carrying as apposed to any factual assessment of whats going on. FMD, "blue-blooded England captain.......destined for glory.....processing majestically through the public school system into international stardom" These are your own perceptions rather than anything the ECB media hub is promoting.

I don't care what Cook speaks like, what school he went to, what he does on weekends or even if he rocks up to games riding a horse carrying a lance. All I care about is how he performs as captain and batsman for England.

And for the record, Cook has undoubtedly failed as an England captain.....you've got no argument from me there. But failed as an opening batsmen???? Too many bongs when you posted that matey. 8000 test runs, 25 tons and an ave of 47 stands up against the very best.

The one and only thing we need to concern ourselves with is getting him back scoring runs, I'm with the majority that the best way to achieve that is take the captaincy away from him (although I've got nfi who to give it to) Sending him back to County Cricket is a waste of time and will achieve nothing.



You mistook a crucial point - he FAILS as an England opener not failed.
No-one is denying his record but it's preposterous to adopt a policy of hoping his form may come good when it has plainly been so bad for so long.
Warne is right in today's Telegraph - he needs a complete break from cricket otherwise this will only end in tears.
The worst thing is that a bloody Australan is the only one with the cojones to tell it like it is.
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addtamx
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 08:49 on 27th Jun 2014

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 961
Location: Australia
Cuthbert Rizla Wrote:
You mistook a crucial point - he FAILS as an England opener not failed.
No-one is denying his record but it's preposterous to adopt a policy of hoping his form may come good when it has plainly been so bad for so long.
Warne is right in today's Telegraph - he needs a complete break from cricket otherwise this will only end in tears.
The worst thing is that a bloody Australan is the only one with the cojones to tell it like it is.


Warne isn't the only one....every bloody pundit from here to Mars is having a piece of Cook at the moment and I'm not saying a lot of it isn't justified........but I do say none of it is helping.

Look a little over 18 months ago people were talking about Cook being up there with the likes of the Amla's, Clarkes, Chanders and ABDV's of the world........that hasn't just vanished, that talent and ability is still there.

Now unless I'm mistaken Eng don't exactly have a string of truly world class batsmen queuing up for a gig, which means we can't afford to waste any that we do have.

As others have pointed out Cook is a broken man at the moment, absolutely 100% mentally shot......and it is sad to see. Before we write off one of the worlds best batsmen shouldn't we at least take the burden of captaincy off his shoulders and see if that goes anyway towards fixing him???

I do agree with you that no player has a given right to play for England and everyone should be drop-able. But he's only 29 and we have to explore every avenue and every option with him before he gets tossed to the wayside (as a batsmen)

Personally I can't see anything changing for the Indian series, I think he'll get that series as captain, but unless he can find a switch to flick before hand I'm just not sure what will change. Just gotta hope the Indian quicks don't lift their game like Sri Lankas did...........who knows maybe 5 tests against some rank medium pace and spin might be just what Cooky needs to get back.
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GMH2
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 09:47 on 27th Jun 2014

Joined: 10:48 on 22nd Aug 2011
Posts: 108
Sorry, I am not one to 'big up'the ECB but to imply that a player is fast tracked into the captaincy because of their background is bollocks. Flintoff, Vaughan, Hussain, Atherton, Gooch, Gatting, Fletcher, Botham.........none are exactly aritocrisy are they ? In fact over the past 35 years, you could argue that only Brearley, Gower and Strauss have come from Public school backgrounds.Bearing in mind the standard of cricket played at (and on pitches as bad as) comprehensives compared to public schools, that shows that everyone has an equal chance (not to mention the work that clubs do to nuture talent).
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blueandy1mac
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 10:22 on 27th Jun 2014

Joined: 12:30 on 14th Jul 2008
Posts: 2169
Location: Preston UK
GMH2 Wrote:
Sorry, I am not one to 'big up'the ECB but to imply that a player is fast tracked into the captaincy because of their background is bollocks. Flintoff, Vaughan, Hussain, Atherton, Gooch, Gatting, Fletcher, Botham.........none are exactly aritocrisy are they ? In fact over the past 35 years, you could argue that only Brearley, Gower and Strauss have come from Public school backgrounds.Bearing in mind the standard of cricket played at (and on pitches as bad as) comprehensives compared to public schools, that shows that everyone has an equal chance (not to mention the work that clubs do to nuture talent).


Actually matey, its a f...ing miracle we get any cricketers, never mind captains, from the state system at all.
Looking back 35+years to my own time, we prepared our own wickets and had NO coaching. From what I've sen and read since, its actually gotten worse.
We have test players DESPITE the system, not because of it.
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Richard
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 20:32 on 30th Jun 2014

Joined: 22:35 on 18th Nov 2008
Posts: 108
Let's look back at 1980 and 1981. A relatively young player inherits the captaincy due to his outstanding performances in the last few years, despite having minimal county experience. He has a dramatic collapse in form, can't buy a win and gets relieved of the captaincy after an ignominious pair at Lord's.

What happened next?
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addtamx
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 22:00 on 30th Jun 2014

Joined: 21:02 on 9th May 2008
Posts: 961
Location: Australia
So you're suggesting we make Mike Brearly captain?? :lol:
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Cuthbert Rizla
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 23:39 on 30th Jun 2014

Joined: 20:14 on 21st Mar 2012
Posts: 238
addtamx Wrote:
So you're suggesting we make Mike Brearly captain?? :lol:


Nope,Eoin Morgan.
He was born to lead his country.
Sorry,our country.
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blueandy1mac
Post subject: Re: Cook out !
PostPosted: 12:16 on 1st Jul 2014

Joined: 12:30 on 14th Jul 2008
Posts: 2169
Location: Preston UK
addtamx Wrote:
So you're suggesting we make Mike Brearly captain?? :lol:


Actually .......................
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