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STUMPY
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 21:23 on 20th Jan 2009

Joined: 05:51 on 21st Dec 2008
Posts: 73
You make 2 statements in your last 2 posts that confuse the hell out of me... :?

(1) Good at County level but not test class

(2) Four innings are not enough to judge


As a Middlesex fan and close friend of Owais (in case you had not already guessed :) ) I'm hoping the new coach/captain give Owais the chance he deserves.Only time will tell.
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wickets
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 22:34 on 20th Jan 2009

Joined: 22:49 on 30th Apr 2008
Posts: 1026
Location: Swindon
His 88 in Bombay 2006 was class.
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kevin fisher
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 01:31 on 21st Jan 2009

Joined: 15:27 on 21st Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Maidenover Wrote:
an average is only a reasonable measure if there's enough data, and for it to be a good indicator (of success) you need enough of the individual scores near the average (consistency). Four innings are not enough to judge because if, for example, you discount the 1st innings of 88 (as often the extremes are discounted), his average is only down to 16 in the other 3 innings (this will probably rise if we take out the lower extreme?), but then we are only looking at even less innings. What I'm trying to get across is once he gets, say, 20 innings (if he gets the chance) we can have another look. I suspect he may have more of a chance under Strauss than Pietersen, who as said farmed him out to the boundaries, but the selectors exclude the captain, I understand, so as he didn't get picked before, will he be picked now?


"As often the extremes are discounted" - what does that mean? Averages are averages and they speak for themselves. As someone else pointed out he's only been given the chance to play two Tests so how can you say he is rubbish? And you say that if he plays another 20 innings we can have another look, yet you wouldnt even have him in the team. you must be on drugs, my son. and not very good ones at that.
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kevin fisher
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 01:39 on 21st Jan 2009

Joined: 15:27 on 21st Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Maidenover Wrote:
Shah seems to be in the Ramprakash, Hick, Maynard, Sales, etc, mould. Good at County level but not test class. I think like Hick, for instance, he'll get "worked out" at that level and do little when it matters. We need to find players of quality (struggling to identify them) and Shah doesn't have it for me. Hope I'm proved wrong if he gets his chance. Not sure KP or others have confidence in him, you wouldn't field regularly at 3rd man if you felt he was part of the team (unless about to bowl the next over).


Oh yes and one other thing - "Shah seems to be in the Ramprakash, Hick [etc etc] mould". Someone has already mentioned Sales being a stupid thing to say which obviously it is, but as for your general point goes Oasis Shah has only played two Tests for crying out loud - how can you judge him with Ramps and Hick - they were given more chances than i dont know what. you wanna have alook at what you are saying, its rubbish.
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Maidenover
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 09:04 on 21st Jan 2009

Joined: 09:13 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 2913
kevin fisher Wrote:
As someone else pointed out he's only been given the chance to play two Tests so how can you say he is rubbish? And you say that if he plays another 20 innings we can have another look


I haven't said he's rubbish (wombat posts these type of statements?), I just think he doesn't look right to me in a test set up (in the same way as Bell looks right, but currently isn't performing), and importantly this seems to be the view of the selectors and was the view of KP when he was captain. As a captain of a side there are many was you can let the selectors know you are unhappy (getting them to field at 3rd man when not a bowler, not giving them many overs if they are a bowler, etc). Atherton made his position clear on the taking of Maynard to the Windies in 1993. In the recent innings he's looked very nervous, and unsure of his position (which again maybe to do with KP, etc)

The averages thing is to do with mathematics, and standard deviations, lines of best fit, etc. as said for an average to be reliable, you need lots of consistent data, and you tend to ignore the extremes as being just that (one-offs). I agree that Hick, Ramakash, etc got too many goes, as to me they didn't look right. Class is usually apparent early on, and as said often in my posting I hope he proves me (and the selectors) wrong. It appears to me that he's not going to get his chance, as Maynard, Sales, etc equally didn't.
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Maidenover
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 20:32 on 22nd Jan 2009

Joined: 09:13 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 2913
STUMPY Wrote:
You make 2 statements in your last 2 posts that confuse the hell out of me... :?
(1) Good at County level but not test class
(2) Four innings are not enough to judge


From my own county, check the records of Don Shepherd, Alan Jones, and Steve Watkin. Someone aobviously thought the two statements applied to them, and didn't bother to see whether four goes is enough to judge, whereas others get loads of goes :roll:

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 20155.html
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 15537.html
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 22333.html
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Crouchy
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 22:13 on 22nd Jan 2009

Joined: 12:13 on 27th Apr 2008
Posts: 2406
Location: London
Maidenover Wrote:
STUMPY Wrote:
You make 2 statements in your last 2 posts that confuse the hell out of me... :?
(1) Good at County level but not test class
(2) Four innings are not enough to judge


From my own county, check the records of Don Shepherd, Alan Jones, and Steve Watkin. Someone aobviously thought the two statements applied to them, and didn't bother to see whether four goes is enough to judge, whereas others get loads of goes :roll:

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 20155.html
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 15537.html
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/ ... 22333.html


I should probably stand up for Shah here as a) I proclaimed throughout the Sri Lanka tour that Bopara's selection over Shah was ridiculous and b) Shah took losing a game of pool to me in Colombo like a gentleman, despite my being obviously blindly drunk at the time.

Shah is a class batsman in both ODI and Test cricket, and that's why he's always frustratingly on the fringe of the Test team. However, from what I read there remain questions about his attitude and I suspect he offended someone within the always-cosy "Team England" setup at some point. His sitting out the Middlesex vs. South Africa game last summer was incredibly stupid and I don't think he's ever going to realise his full potential. A great shame.
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wickets
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 22:40 on 22nd Jan 2009

Joined: 22:49 on 30th Apr 2008
Posts: 1026
Location: Swindon
wickets Wrote:
His 88 in Bombay 2006 was class.


Shah is class.
Please see above.
He's not really been given a proper chance, if he was given that opportunity, I think he'd take it.
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Maidenover
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 20:17 on 24th Jan 2009

Joined: 09:13 on 23rd Apr 2008
Posts: 2913
Looks like Shah has a chance?
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/wiveng20 ... 87701.html
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STUMPY
Post subject: Re: KP, A tactical genius
PostPosted: 21:03 on 26th Jan 2009

Joined: 05:51 on 21st Dec 2008
Posts: 73
125 NOT OUT



Dont wish to say i told you,but............... :D


Trouble is if you read or watch any media......was he playing ?

Strauss got out for zero and KP hit a ton thats all the papers are talking about. :x
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